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My 15A fast chargers have arrived and they work!!!

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escubic
Posts: 72
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(@escubic)
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Joined: 5 years ago

So finally I got my fast chargers. I ordered the VLDL chargers, similar to those from @tomp but in the non-waterproof version. The advantage of the no-waterproof version are:

- lightweight (3.1 kg + cables)
- compact 27 x 15 x 9 cm
- display with V and A readings

I ordered 2 of these:  https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/60V-15A-Lithium-Battery-Charger-For_60770479964.html

The model is called "UY1200" and can be found also from different vendors and brands.

You can order the charger customized, in my case:

- 60 V Li-Lion
- End voltage 70.5 V
- 15 A
- with European AC connector
- on the DC side with 50A Anderson connector
- 2 extra Anderson connectors for building the Super Soco connector cable
- without knowing it, I ordered the "reverse polarity detection" option, that is sub-optimal if you want to use the external socket of your Super Soco TC (needs to detect battery voltage before charging starts - but the external Super Soco socket has no voltage when using the paralleler Y-box ... workaround: connect once the charger to the battery, then to external socket). I would recommend that you insist that the charging starts directy, without detecting the polarity first.

The chargers cost me 123 $ each, shipping to Spain is expensive! Another 123 $ + 50 $ island surcharge, and then some hefty IVA/customs payments on arrival (Canary islands: 7% + 30 € handling charge) and the paypal fee. Each charger cost me about 219 €.

I needed to build the Super Soco charging cable, I ordered one from Outdoordreams and connected it with an Anderson plug (with crimp tool, some soldering and resin). Connecting and disconnecting the Anderson plugs is easy.

So how do the chargers work?

Well!

It takes less than 2 hours to charge one battery, and using the external socket with the Y paralleler box is no problem! The only disadvantage when using the external socket with the Y paralleler is that you need to start the charger by connecting it briefly to the battery.

The batteries keep cool (zero ticks on the battery temp indicator), the charger ramps up from the initial voltage to the 70.5 V ceiling (at about 85% SOC) and then throttles back the current from 15A with constant voltage. You can watch the process neatly in the display of the charger.

 But beware that at 15A thin cables start to heat up! The original Super Soco standard cable is 0.75 mm² thin (if you cut in half your standard charger cable for getting the plug), and also the cable from the external socket of your bike to the controller (or Y paralleler) are 0.75 mm² thin. They will get warm (about 40 °C, the grey connector below the seat gets 50 °C). So it is a good recommendation using a thick connector cable (e.g. from Outdoordreams) and charging your battery directy.

I included 2 pictures of my Super Soco. In the Givi top box fit 2 chargers + 1 extra battery neatly.

Super Soco TC charger + top box

Charger detail

 

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2 Replies
 tomp
(@tomp)
Joined: 6 years ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 108
Posted by: escubic

So finally I got my fast chargers. I ordered the VLDL chargers, similar to those from @tomp but in the non-waterproof version. The advantage of the no-waterproof version are:

- lightweight (3.1 kg + cables)
- compact 27 x 15 x 9 cm
- display with V and A readings

I ordered 2 of these:  https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/60V-15A-Lithium-Battery-Charger-For_60770479964.html

The model is called "UY1200" and can be found also from different vendors and brands.

You can order the charger customized, in my case:

- 60 V Li-Lion
- End voltage 70.5 V
- 15 A
- with European AC connector
- on the DC side with 50A Anderson connector
- 2 extra Anderson connectors for building the Super Soco connector cable
- without knowing it, I ordered the "reverse polarity detection" option, that is sub-optimal if you want to use the external socket of your Super Soco TC (needs to detect battery voltage before charging starts - but the external Super Soco socket has no voltage when using the paralleler Y-box ... workaround: connect once the charger to the battery, then to external socket). I would recommend that you insist that the charging starts directy, without detecting the polarity first.

The chargers cost me 123 $ each, shipping to Spain is expensive! Another 123 $ + 50 $ island surcharge, and then some hefty IVA/customs payments on arrival (Canary islands: 7% + 30 € handling charge) and the paypal fee. Each charger cost me about 219 €.

I needed to build the Super Soco charging cable, I ordered one from Outdoordreams and connected it with an Anderson plug (with crimp tool, some soldering and resin). Connecting and disconnecting the Anderson plugs is easy.

So how do the chargers work?

Well!

It takes less than 2 hours to charge one battery, and using the external socket with the Y paralleler box is no problem! The only disadvantage when using the external socket with the Y paralleler is that you need to start the charger by connecting it briefly to the battery.

The batteries keep cool (zero ticks on the battery temp indicator), the charger ramps up from the initial voltage to the 70.5 V ceiling (at about 85% SOC) and then throttles back the current from 15A with constant voltage. You can watch the process neatly in the display of the charger.

 But beware that at 15A thin cables start to heat up! The original Super Soco standard cable is 0.75 mm² thin (if you cut in half your standard charger cable for getting the plug), and also the cable from the external socket of your bike to the controller (or Y paralleler) are 0.75 mm² thin. They will get warm (about 40 °C, the grey connector below the seat gets 50 °C). So it is a good recommendation using a thick connector cable (e.g. from Outdoordreams) and charging your battery directy.

I included 2 pictures of my Super Soco. In the Givi top box fit 2 chargers + 1 extra battery neatly.

Super Soco TC charger + top box

Charger detail

 

Great news! So nice to charge faster ? looks like you can store your chargers in your rear box. Have you gone for a long ride and charged at a public charger yet? That will be the real test! I’m hoping to this summer. 

Now I just need to my bike a bit faster.... 

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escubic
(@escubic)
Joined: 5 years ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 72

noise: first 15 minutes of charging = no noise, then the fan starts once in a while, and the fan is loud. But hey I have the fast chargers for traveling, not for everyday use. Sorry, no public chargers in the Canary Islands! But restaurants accept charging. I will try to do a full island round trip around La Palma next weekend. At the moment one of my batteries has error 88 and the dealer promised to send a replacement BMS this week.

The Givi box fits 2 chargers with foam padding and a 3rd Soco battery without a problem 

With 1 fast charger + 2 batteries you can drive 200 km/day like this:
2 hours drive + 2 hours charge + 1 hour drive + 2 hours charge + 1 hour drive (=4 hours drive/200 km, 4 hours charge)

With 2 fast chargers + 2 batteries you can drive 300 km/day:
2 hours drive + 2 hours charge + 2 hours drive + 2 hours charge + 2 hour drive (=6 hours drive/300 km, 4 hours charge)

Some numbers:

start of charging:
18% SOC
62.3 V out
15.0 A out
935 W out
1007 W in
efficiency 935/1007 = 93%
heat dissipation 72 W

after 98 minutes:
??% SOC
68.3 V out
15.1 A out
1031 W out
1107 W in
efficiency 1031/1107 = 93%
heat dissipation 76 W

 

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Artem_TC
Posts: 35
(@artem_tc)
Eminent Member
Joined: 5 years ago

i'm thinking about buying a second original soco charger, i want use them as one (parallelize output), so it will be 8A charger for additional $65. In theory, it should halve the charging time, and still no any noise (original china charger doesn't have fan)

 

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1 Reply
patjepatatje
(@patjepatatje)
Joined: 6 years ago

Trusted Member
Posts: 56

Isnt that going to be overkill for the batterie, 16aA?

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escubic
Posts: 72
Topic starter
(@escubic)
Estimable Member
Joined: 5 years ago

I have to add:

the numbers are for charging 2 batteries with Y paralleler box with one fast charger

the voltage went up in 98 minutes from 62.3 to 68.3 V. At 85% SOC it would be 70.3 V. So in 98 minutes, charging 2 batteries with one fast charger, the voltage went up 6.0 V. It would need to go up from the beginning 8.0 V in order to reach 85% SOC, so we are at 6.0V/8.0V = 3/4 of the time to reach 85%. So the SOC went up in 98 minutes from 18% to 68%, which would be 3/4 all the way to 85%. That means that in 98 minutes, charging 2 batteries, the SOC increases 50%. It would probably need 1.5 times the time, 147 minutes, in order to go up 75%, from 10% to 85% which would be the most typical application for a fast charger.

What the numbers mean: With 1 fast charger, battery paralleler box, two batteries you need around 147 minutes (~2 1/2 hours) to go from 10% to 85% which would be the best charging strategy.

 

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3 Replies
UTesla
(@utesla)
Joined: 5 years ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 20
Posted by: escubic

I have to add:

the numbers are for charging 2 batteries with Y paralleler box with one fast charger

the voltage went up in 98 minutes from 62.3 to 68.3 V. At 85% SOC it would be 70.3 V. So in 98 minutes, charging 2 batteries with one fast charger, the voltage went up 6.0 V. It would need to go up from the beginning 8.0 V in order to reach 85% SOC, so we are at 6.0V/8.0V = 3/4 of the time to reach 85%. So the SOC went up in 98 minutes from 18% to 68%, which would be 3/4 all the way to 85%. That means that in 98 minutes, charging 2 batteries, the SOC increases 50%. It would probably need 1.5 times the time, 147 minutes, in order to go up 75%, from 10% to 85% which would be the most typical application for a fast charger.

What the numbers mean: With 1 fast charger, battery paralleler box, two batteries you need around 147 minutes (~2 1/2 hours) to go from 10% to 85% which would be the best charging strategy.

 

Hi, 

Thanks for all the info, I'm thinking about buying a charger like that one. I appreciate your help with calculation but I only have one battery (because here in Uruguay the seconf battery costs USD 1200) and I want a faster charge in order to get a partial quick charger to continue driving. 

Because my estimated range is about 30km (Soco TS1200R 60V26Ah) charging it about 2 times a week in order to go to work (6 km total). But when I have to take it to service center that is about 25 km I start at home with 100% and get there with  46%. While it was there get charged to 70% (original charger, I left it at 11:15 and get it back 14:45 and I don't know how much time it was plugged in) ride 24 km back and arrived to work with 9%. 

Considering that your are using the fast charger with an Y parallel cable each battery gets 7.5A. Do you think that a 7-8A charger will suit me? And the 15A charger will damage the battery in short time? I will use it occasionally to do that kind of trip (50-60 km total) and try rich about 80-85%.

I really appreciate your post, I was thinking about buying something like that

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(@socobelfast)
Joined: 5 years ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 42

@utesla

As a general rule, you can safely use half the current of your battery's capacity. If you have a 30Ah battery, in theory it can handle 15A of current.

I use a 10A fast charger from Outdoordreams and I've had no problems with the battery. Generally speaking, I rarely bring the percentage down past 15%, and it usually takes somewhere just over two hours to get the capacity to somwhere in the high 90s %.

When I finish my DIY battery, I may buy another fast charger to allow me to get both batteries back to capacity in the same amount of time, depending on whether or not two full batteries allows me to do as much delivery work as I want in a single day or whether I need to recharge to get back out to earn more money.

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UTesla
(@utesla)
Joined: 5 years ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 20

@socobelfast

Thank you very much

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Artem_TC
Posts: 35
(@artem_tc)
Eminent Member
Joined: 5 years ago

200-300km/day riding a city bike, are you seriosly?     ? 

I hope you are joking, if not, then share your impressions after such a trip

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1 Reply
(@socobelfast)
Joined: 5 years ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 42

@artem_tc

Let's say you average 40km/hr. Generous, given the way the bike's speed drops as the battery's charge falls. That's a solid 5-8 hours of riding. I can imagine that many hours as a delivery rider, but I would never average that high a speed since I would be subjected to traffic lights and junctions and congestion.

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escubic
Posts: 72
Topic starter
(@escubic)
Estimable Member
Joined: 5 years ago

15A do not damage your battery. The cells from LG can handle up to 28 A (that is "1C" for the TC battery pack, I do not know the cells of the TS battery). There is also a cheaper and more compact 15A charger: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/60-v-15A-schnelle-ladeger-t-geschwindigkeit-ladeger-t-mit-led-anzeige-16-s-67-2/32907359171.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.1c824c4d8C0Wjg but without CE certification.

I do not recommend using a Y paralleler box with 15 A. It gets too hot because the cables are just 0.75mm². I think 10A is safe with the paralleler box and 12A is safe on the outside charging outlet. My recommendation is charging directly the batteries at 15A. 

Batteries get damaged if you charge them >45°C and wear out fast if you charge them too often >90% or <10%. So do not use your fast charger directly after a mountain ride and stop before 100%.

Here are the charging times for the "30 Ah" TC battery pack (which has 28Ah in reality):

15A = 1% per 1 min 07 sec, 54% per hour
12A = 1% per 1 min 24 sec, 43% per hour
10A = 1% per 1 min 41 sec, 36% per hour
4,5 A = 1% per 3 min 44 sec,  16% per hour (standard charger)

You must also consider that a 15A charger draws 5A out of your 230V outlet (1150 W max). I have already experienced very embarrasing situations where my charger brought down the whole electricity network of a restaurant which allowed recharging and I was kicked out because of that (I am living in the most underdeveloped region of Spain).

Safeguarding your battery is very important because battery wear is the most expensive part of e-mobility. If your battery breaks down after 700 cycles = 700*45 km = 31500 km and the replacement cost is 1000 € this is 3.18 € per 100 km. This is as expensive as gasoline for the same distance. It is so silly to say "hey the electricity cost me only 0.30 €/100 km" because it is a tiny part of the true cost

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(@javitxu78)
Joined: 5 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 16

a question. the connector for the cable of your charger where you bought it? I understand that it is the same connector that carries the original charger to connect to the battery. I have seen interesting things on taobao and outodoor dreams but I do not know how to buy there.

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UTesla
(@utesla)
Joined: 5 years ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 20
Posted by: Javitxu78

a question. the connector for the cable of your charger where you bought it? I understand that it is the same connector that carries the original charger to connect to the battery. I have seen interesting things on taobao and outodoor dreams but I do not know how to buy there.

He cut the original charger cable and used Anderson Connectors to connect to de new charger and the original in case he wants to use it

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(@javitxu78)
Joined: 5 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 16

Ok. Thank you.

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UTesla
(@utesla)
Joined: 5 years ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 20
Posted by: escubic

15A do not damage your battery. The cells from LG can handle up to 28 A (that is "1C" for the TC battery pack, I do not know the cells of the TS battery). There is also a cheaper and more compact 15A charger: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/60-v-15A-schnelle-ladeger-t-geschwindigkeit-ladeger-t-mit-led-anzeige-16-s-67-2/32907359171.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.1c824c4d8C0Wjg but without CE certification.

I do not recommend using a Y paralleler box with 15 A. It gets too hot because the cables are just 0.75mm². I think 10A is safe with the paralleler box and 12A is safe on the outside charging outlet. My recommendation is charging directly the batteries at 15A. 

Batteries get damaged if you charge them >45°C and wear out fast if you charge them too often >90% or <10%. So do not use your fast charger directly after a mountain ride and stop before 100%.

Here are the charging times for the "30 Ah" TC battery pack (which has 28Ah in reality):

15A = 1% per 1 min 07 sec, 54% per hour
12A = 1% per 1 min 24 sec, 43% per hour
10A = 1% per 1 min 41 sec, 36% per hour
4,5 A = 1% per 3 min 44 sec,  16% per hour (standard charger)

You must also consider that a 15A charger draws 5A out of your 230V outlet (1150 W max). I have already experienced very embarrasing situations where my charger brought down the whole electricity network of a restaurant which allowed recharging and I was kicked out because of that (I am living in the most underdeveloped region of Spain).

Safeguarding your battery is very important because battery wear is the most expensive part of e-mobility. If your battery breaks down after 700 cycles = 700*45 km = 31500 km and the replacement cost is 1000 € this is 3.18 € per 100 km. This is as expensive as gasoline for the same distance. It is so silly to say "hey the electricity cost me only 0.30 €/100 km" because it is a tiny part of the true cost

Thank you very much. I saw that one and I'm interested in. Thank you very much

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